#57 Rethinking porn - Feminism, Pleasure and Power with Erika Lust

00:00:05: Feminism for many people is almost

00:00:08: violence against men, which is crazy.

00:00:11: Everyone is learning so much with the internet about sex.

00:00:14: I love life!

00:00:16: I love living.

00:00:31: Hello and welcome

00:00:32: to Sexamble in The English Version And today i'm so happy and proud that I have one of the super pioneers With everything around sex positivity and especially about porn Erica Lust in the interview and she is so nice that she gave me some time.

00:00:48: And we can talk a little bit about what's important to watch porn, produce it?

00:00:54: What do you need or learn from porn and change over the last twenty years since she has been doing amazing work!

00:01:02: Hi Erica thankyou for being here.

00:01:04: Hi.

00:01:05: Erica, if someone from outside like my mom I told her today that i will talk to Erika last and she said okay but what is he doing?

00:01:13: so how would you answer this question of my mother?

00:01:16: What are you doing exactly?

00:01:18: Well, you know it depends a little bit on the context to be honest because I answer that question differently depending on who i'm talking too.

00:01:27: So as you said for your mum I would say...I'm gonna talk to Erika last.

00:01:33: she's an erotic filmmaker.

00:01:34: That will probably my first approach.

00:01:37: Good, you're a erotic filmmaker but also feminist.

00:01:40: So how does it go together?

00:01:42: Well I think those two can go very well together!

00:01:49: If we say an erotic film maker... ...I don't know if people feel that feminism goes against it the first thing they think.

00:01:57: But obviously when you are an adult filmmaker which i am of course and even if that you're a porn filmmaker, then people react more strongly to the idea of porn and feminism going together.

00:02:15: But again it depends very much on who you are talking too because I think that during the last fifteen ten years there today more and more people who consume alternative porn, independent porn feminist porn.

00:02:34: And who are quite aware what it is still if we talk about the general public It's still feels to them like some kind of oxymoron.

00:02:44: Like you know porn has this misogynistic violent ideas towards women and feminism for many is a genre that they understand as almost violence against men which is crazy because obviously it's not what it is but people still have very old ideas about.

00:03:13: But when I talk about feminist porn, what i'm talking is pornography that shows a power structure on screen.

00:03:25: That portrays any gender men women non-binary folks from you know, a perspective of inclusivity and where it's not about fetishizing anyone for their identity or who they are.

00:03:45: But for me feminist porn is also a lot about... Not only about representation on screen but there was so much participation.

00:03:53: Who's making it?

00:03:55: How is this done?

00:03:57: with what kind of working conditions and care processes behind it.

00:04:03: And Erika, the biggest misunderstanding about your work... Is there something where you always find misunderstood?

00:04:11: I mean my work depends on... think the biggest misconception.

00:04:18: Well, you know if people have watched it they have a very different opinion than if they haven't watched it.

00:04:24: but there's many people who maybe read an article or had just vague idea of their work and thinks that either It might be very soft framing, you know some kind of feminine sexuality that they imagine like love making in front of the chimney or

00:04:45: with a lot talking.

00:04:47: This is what women wants when it comes to sex only talking

00:04:52: or to go the other way.

00:04:53: and they think more about kind of their misconception, on their idea what feminism is.

00:05:00: And then they think that I'm portraying lots of women like in a almost violent movement with hair under their arms and hair on their legs, and strap ons ready to kind of fuck the patriarchy.

00:05:18: And that's the vision they have.

00:05:21: but for me my work is.

00:05:24: I mean i see myself as a filmmaker who works with the subject of sexuality and eroticism where I do show explicit sex, i definitely don't hide it.

00:05:43: but its also important for me to show relatable sex.

00:05:48: To show situations that that I can kind of identify with and where i feel the pleasure women are having in my films.

00:06:03: That it feels relatable, real to other women?

00:06:08: They see women taking charge agency over their own sexuality.

00:06:14: they actually stimulate themselves but asking for what they want and that they are part of the narrative, in their story.

00:06:27: And what is going on?

00:06:29: Sex isn't just something happening to them but it's something they're wanting.

00:06:38: Elka where do you find your ideas?

00:06:40: when searching for a good idea from our film

00:06:43: I mean, i find ideas anywhere really.

00:06:46: I find them in inspirations from everything... From photography music dance stories that I hear books that I read articles questions conversations I'm having with people and also you founded this site many years ago now called X Confessions, where the idea of this site was for anonymous people around the world to be able send in their stories.

00:07:18: There is sex fantasies or things they wanted to do or kinks kind of different sex stories and then they are gathered there together in a huge archive.

00:07:32: And what I have been doing for many years now is picking these stories, making short films out them... ...and that's the huge source inspiration to me!

00:07:44: And

00:07:45: do you see more and more good examples around?

00:07:48: You're totally the pioneer.

00:07:50: If I meet new filmmakers, they say like, I'm Erica Last from wherever... From Czech or from Berlin or whatever.

00:07:58: So

00:08:00: my

00:08:00: work is like Erica Last so everyone's looking at you.

00:08:05: A bit of a reference!

00:08:06: You

00:08:06: are wonderful reference.

00:08:08: Do you think that market has changed in last twenty years and only for good or like?

00:08:15: No, I think lots of things changed.

00:08:18: And i'm very happy that there are many more creative porn, adult erotic filmmakers who are working today.

00:08:30: It's true that when I started there wasn't that many but there were definitely others before me.

00:08:37: it's not like i invented the genre...I was very inspired by The Work of Candida Royale Who for me was a huge reference!

00:08:47: I think it was the first pornographic films That I had seen directed and created written by, produced by a woman.

00:08:59: And her work really opened up my eyes to the possibilities of making something different from most of the porn that I had encountered until that point.

00:09:18: reading a book by Linda Williams, a book called Hardcore.

00:09:23: And in her book I learned not only about Candida but about Annie Sprinkle and many of these earlier filmmakers who started already in the seventies eighties then later on in the nineties also.

00:09:39: there's also many queer film makers has shown how you know creating stories and narratives outside the heteronormative ideas can open up new ways of understanding your own sexuality.

00:09:58: So my work is very much inspired by this other, if I continue to inspire more people i'm happy.

00:10:10: But Erica, the field you're working in and the whole society is I think there are also lots of critics around like with your male colleagues.

00:10:20: With people who maybe do the same but not on their way.

00:10:24: so how do you work?

00:10:25: With people which are not happy that you do this work?

00:10:30: So How Do You Live With Lots Of People Who Are Against It?

00:10:34: I mean, i can't really care about the people who are not happy that im doing this work.

00:10:45: I think that it's very important, when there is criticism of course.

00:10:52: It's always interesting to listen and try to understand but you have to be clear with what your vision or ideas are and what YOU want to do.

00:11:05: otherwise get too stuck in a system where you just listen to other people.

00:11:13: This

00:11:14: episode is made with friendly support from Femtesy.

00:11:18: And Femdesi has all kinds of audiobooks and what she likes to search for other erotic things in the ear, that's exactly the right address for Femnesy!

00:11:30: You also get a very great code, sexinberlinheisder, which saves you € twenty-five on your annual subscription, so just the annual subscription by Femnessy, it will definitely be worth it ... And

00:12:02: how did your

00:12:03: work

00:12:04: like, interfered with your private life?

00:12:07: Is it easy or is For example, I have children and sometimes they are a little annoyed all the sex topic again.

00:12:15: And also with my partners or something so... My work is interfered sometimes with my private life.

00:12:21: how's it for you if you like to tell?

00:12:24: I mean in my case, i've done this now for quite many years.

00:12:27: My kids are already you know turning sixteen and nineteen this year so we've been through many different periods there...I think that the person who have been hardest on me has been my mom..who never really loved the idea of me doing what I'm doing.

00:12:51: she accepted it and understands, she I'm close to her as a person but work is still something that... It's kind of a taboo subject for us.

00:13:04: Something we don't really talk about with her But my kids they have always been very kind of open, there was obviously a period where they didn't understand why I wanted to even make films.

00:13:20: Where people were kissing each other you know?

00:13:23: They said that at the time... ...they thought it was absolutely disgusting when they were smaller!

00:13:29: I have never hidden what i do for them and had never shown them explicit images either but been very clear with that.

00:13:38: I do portray people having sex in my films.

00:13:42: And today they are very proud of me, They're not ashamed who i am at all.

00:13:49: It's rather something you know.

00:13:52: sometimes come back home and tell stories about a friend Who told them about my work.

00:13:59: then he went.

00:13:59: That is my mom!

00:14:01: And no, it has more of a positive spin than the negative spin I have to

00:14:09: say.

00:14:10: Maybe it's for your mom, not so easy to accept what you exactly do.

00:14:14: What would you like to tell other women?

00:14:17: Do we have the right to talk about our own sexuality and be part of it?

00:14:23: And how...what is important when also talking about the sexuality from other woman?

00:14:29: Like what is an important thing that should learn...?

00:14:32: I mean first i'd say don't shame or judge others!

00:14:37: That for me is the most important thing because I think that we have been doing it as a society, way too long.

00:14:45: It's not only men and patriarchy who are shaming women for sex but also us women part of those narratives.

00:14:58: so... and learn what we have learned, the shame that has been put on us.

00:15:07: It's a very difficult and hard process but I think if you start becoming aware... You start educating yourself about sexuality or gender different ways of feeling desire, that is the first kind of... The first step to start the unlearning process.

00:15:35: Because I think many people feel ashamed about their sexuality.

00:15:41: They are afraid they're different or perverts That have kinks and not supposed.

00:15:52: And what I have learned through a sex-positive community and the King communities, that yes, of course there's lots of really bad pornography out there but also a lot of really wonderful pornography.

00:16:15: And what we have to learn is kind of separate about how it feels good for you and in the process stop judging other people They want to be loved or how they want to have a sex and instead start thinking about what matters.

00:16:43: And that is, everybody who's involved in those sexual encounters are feeling respected and listened too... ...and you know having safe environment where they feel like they can share their fears and their boundaries, talk about even difficult things that might have happened to them.

00:17:08: I think it's interesting when we look especially at women's sexuality because pleasing others, and it's in our kind of... It is the way we have learned that it is.

00:17:31: And I've had so many friends who spent way too much years concentrating on other people's pleasure instead their own.

00:17:44: Who recognized through pornography And especially through independent feminist pornography, they have been able to start finding what feels like a more authentic desire to them.

00:18:03: Just be able to watch and see other women experiencing pleasure has been absolutely a shift in their lives.

00:18:15: Last thing how educated can a porn be?

00:18:20: Because today when you see a statistic, eighty percent of the young people or I think everyone is learning so much with internet about sex.

00:18:28: They watch porn and they now see AI porn in all these things.

00:18:32: how educative could a porn be?

00:18:35: And maybe good or bad way?

00:18:38: Well i think it's important to understand that ALL PORN EDUCATES, ALL MEDIA EDUCATE whether its GOOD OR BAD always messages in media, that's why it is so important to become media literate and porn literate.

00:18:57: To understand what it is how its done?

00:19:01: And What kind of messages are sending out?

00:19:04: Anyhow the biggest problem here the lack of sex education, because if we would have better sex education and better media literacy in our schools.

00:19:18: And if parents would have more of these porn conversations with their teens.

00:19:24: under young adults they will be better prepared for what are consuming how to understand it.

00:19:33: But if you look at, because we all know that the porn online now does the sex education for so many young people and not-so-young people out there.

00:19:45: That's a reality!

00:19:47: It is a realty And We have to face it.

00:19:50: but its also true.

00:19:52: as I said in this talk

00:19:55: through

00:19:56: great porn You can also unlearn things that you thought were true and learn new things, but didn't even know what had them right to desire or how to feel pleasure.

00:20:13: So it's not the porn in itself is a problem?

00:20:18: But rather there are values around it on how to understand those values.

00:20:26: Okay!

00:20:26: What is coming next?

00:20:29: Is AI the only thing we will watch in ten years or is it?

00:20:35: No, no.

00:20:40: Think so, at all.

00:20:41: I think that we are going to be super fed up with it!

00:20:45: We crave closeness and intimacy... ...and we crave realness.

00:20:50: And yes now this has been trending for a while.

00:20:55: AI is used as an abusive image creation.

00:21:02: That's one of the things done by us.

00:21:05: But i definitely think more people they want is the closeness to other people.

00:21:14: They don't want closeness with an AI robot.

00:21:17: I don't want that.

00:21:19: Lots of people are falling in love now with AI robots and one story was a guy had different kind of AI robots, he has different kinds of laugh stories.

00:21:28: then they started to be jealous and fight against each other.

00:21:32: so very strange things coming up.

00:21:36: but we also see young generation who turn from technology or computers craving real life experiences going out, who are getting off social media.

00:21:50: Who are getting their mobiles back to reading?

00:21:54: Who want analog photography again

00:21:58: etc.?

00:21:59: So I think that yeah these things technology pushes sometimes a few step forward but then we go balance in what we are looking for and what matters to us.

00:22:14: Okay, you seem like a person full of energy!

00:22:17: What is your energy source?

00:22:19: Where do you find it?

00:22:28: feels like that should be the answer.

00:22:31: Actually, it's sometimes I would have said coffee but i'm actually off-coffee now doing a drink called awakening every morning and the green juice and lots of water!

00:22:43: I am very healthy girl so...I don't know?

00:22:47: My energy comes from my immense Last of living, I love life.

00:23:03: Yeah.

00:23:03: Erika, I'm in love with you now and i think... You were the right person to be president of any kind country!

00:23:10: We would all live very happy together and connected.

00:23:15: so if we could think about a second work maybe politics is good for us?

00:23:21: Well it started political science.

00:23:24: that's my... my official.

00:23:27: Yeah, maybe

00:23:27: it's time to go back to this route now

00:23:30: but I think i'm doing politics through my pornography and uh...I even have a book coming out soon that i'm very excited about also talking more about my story and-and my life and why I ended up becoming Eric Alast

00:23:48: Nice.

00:23:49: I want to read this book, when will it be out?

00:23:51: It's out in the US, thirteenth of October and on the UK fifth of November i think.

00:24:00: And then its coming to other European countries France & Spain and coming out in Catalan Italian...I don't know if it is coming out German yet

00:24:11: I can read it in English, and i will read for sure.

00:24:16: What is the most funny thing that happened during a shoot?

00:24:20: The funniest thing that happened during a shoot.

00:24:23: I don't know if you would have said what it was, more in the sense of fun?

00:24:28: All their wonderful orgasms are one of the best things to happen!

00:24:42: or other performers and of their amazing chemistry that they had.

00:24:48: But the funniest thing, I don't know breaking beds maybe?

00:24:51: We have done this a few times!

00:24:54: This could also be nice title for your next book Breaking Beds.

00:24:58: Breaking

00:24:58: Bads...I like it.

00:25:01: It sounds like TV series or something

00:25:05: Erica.

00:25:06: Thank you so much for this lovely, energizing wonderful interview.

00:25:11: I'm a big fan and was it before?

00:25:13: And now you totally won me over!

00:25:16: Thank you very much for your time

00:25:17: and have

00:25:18: a lovely

00:25:30: day!