#61 If our world leaders were better f***d - Ally Iseman

00:00:01: Relationship dictates everything.

00:00:07: If our world leaders were better fucked, we'd be less fucked... Oh yeah!

00:00:09: We finish each other's sentences.

00:00:11: That is called interrupting

00:00:12: In one sentence.

00:00:13: what are you doing?

00:00:14: God that a question

00:00:15: I ask every morning when looking at them.

00:00:17: What ARE YOU

00:00:17: DOING?!

00:00:33: Welcome to Sex in Berlin.

00:00:35: Today we are speaking with Allie Eismann, a provocative thinker and cultural practitioner whose work navigates intimacy politics and urban life.

00:00:45: From personal narratives to public debate, Allie brings aridious curiosity and refuse of easy answers!

00:00:55: In this conversation will trace the formative moments of her life examine methods in ethics behind her projects shapes her commitments to the community, desire and social change.

00:01:10: Hi Ali!

00:01:11: Hi

00:01:11: love how are you?

00:01:12: I'm very hot today because we're sitting here

00:01:14: in a really... It's not just me.

00:01:17: A lot of this is you but it also bird-and-summer with no air condition And yeah.. We aren't very small room But looking forward our wonderful time together.

00:01:28: So Ali In one sentence What Are You Doing?

00:01:31: God, that's a question I ask every morning when looking at them.

00:01:34: What are you doing?

00:01:35: My work my life mission is really around as You said so beautifully.

00:01:39: i don't shy away...I Don't think things are necessarily easy answers but they can be simple.

00:01:45: how we relate Is How We Relate any of our relationships Are indicative Of Every Relationship.

00:01:50: So Whatever We're Not Looking At Is Impacting How We Show Up Relationally From The Bedroom To the Boardroom.

00:01:56: And Like In A Practical Sense Can you describe where or with whom you are working?

00:02:03: Absolutely.

00:02:04: So my work aligns most often with private coaching, I worked a lot of very impactful and successful professional people who excel at creating what they want in their professional life, and their financial life.

00:02:19: And all of that... They're at a transition point where maybe you know they've sold their company.

00:02:23: whatever it is work can no longer be the excuse for why there relationship at home isn't functioning.

00:02:30: What I do as I teach Relationship As A Skill Set Not relationship as a destination or something we get, but really an ongoing conversation.

00:02:40: I call it a relation trip—a little bit of play on words–but its' an ongoing conversation!

00:02:44: It's an adventure and my company is called Passport to Pleasure because that isn't one stop.

00:02:49: you're getting bunches stamps in your passport to pleasure, your relation trip is an ongoing adventure.

00:02:55: So

00:02:55: Ali isn't it true that I only need this one person?

00:02:58: I meet him or her or they and then we are together.

00:03:02: everything's happy for life.

00:03:03: So is there more to learn?

00:03:05: Of

00:03:05: course.

00:03:06: First of all, sure that can work for some people were not.

00:03:09: again we're not taught the tools and skills We need To build The relationships we want and deserve.

00:03:15: Were given this one script right This prescription For a relationship...this One thing Is what Relationship looks like.

00:03:23: And if it doesn't fit You are the problem

00:03:25: But That's not Or the other person.

00:03:27: Yeah Right It'a dysfunction within you.

00:03:29: Right Its Not the Model but the model can work for some people, easy.

00:03:35: Like we said, right?

00:03:36: It can be simple in that We have to understand our relationship style and it involves just breaking down a handful of things.

00:03:42: for example Our desire is not one plane.

00:03:45: Right.

00:03:45: sexual or physical an emotional Or romantic desires are actually two separate planes And that breaks us down into four quadrants For different relationships styles.

00:03:57: understanding our level Of need for exclusivity on either of those planes fits Us Into One of Those Four Quadrants.

00:04:03: That Helps Us Understand relationship style, and then there's structures for relationships that can support you in relating the way it is most authentic rather than trying to fit yourself into this.

00:04:13: one size fits all but doesn't fit many.

00:04:15: So let's step a little bit back when... maybe some people are having relationship or dreaming of something.

00:04:22: So what should I know about myself before a relationship, even before dating?

00:04:28: Maybe so What is important that i learn about my self may be

00:04:31: well...I think the big one..i see alot as this idea of life partner when your only life partner you're there from beginning to end.

00:04:43: That's the only partnership.

00:04:45: The only relationship that you have for your entire life, so that one is key and it's not.

00:04:51: don't hear me as saying... You know?

00:04:53: ...you have to love yourself before you can love anyone else.

00:04:56: Your work with yourself in that relationship Is ongoing ideally throughout your whole life And you're going to learn things about yourself through your relationships With other people whether they're romantic sexual platonic professional whatever.

00:05:08: They are there all mirrors reflecting back at that core life partnership, that lifelong relationship with yourself.

00:05:16: So if you're doing that work within yourself whether your single or partnered or whatever it is ideally are always going to be doing that and so any relationship that you get into Is Going To Add To That Work?

00:05:27: I really try to Get People Out Of This Idea of i've got to Be You Know Single And Alone And Disconnected And That's The Only Way I Can Prepare Myself For Relating With Other People.

00:05:38: How Are You Meant?

00:05:40: improve your skill set of relating with others when you're in isolation.

00:05:44: You are always related to other people, these skillsets that develop within practice.

00:05:49: there's value and being single if thats what serves at the time.

00:05:52: but that in service relationship isn't necessarily expertise or material we need together.

00:06:00: does it make sense?

00:06:01: I really like this passport for pleasure so i start by reflecting on myself trying to be open and to learn how to connect with myself, then others.

00:06:15: What is the next step?

00:06:17: Maybe I apply for a visa in order to get the passport to pleasure...

00:06:20: Let's keep stretching it!

00:06:22: ...and maybe i want to date.

00:06:24: so what would you recommend today?

00:06:27: that you can have an app where people should bring when they meet me or like...?

00:06:34: Yes, you have to be this and this.

00:06:36: And what is a good way of dating?

00:06:39: So first time when I touch back on one other thing as it relates where we're about go.

00:06:44: so something that's important understand yourself is your dibs.

00:06:47: Your desires, your intentions and boundaries.

00:06:50: that can be in relationship or life going to a specific kind of erotic event but knowing what you're dibs are especially your B's, your boundaries.

00:07:00: That's where you meet other people.

00:07:02: Boundaries are the connection point.

00:07:04: It actually just edges on comfort zone.

00:07:07: The gift that boundaries give us are ability connect with others.

00:07:11: You give them what they need.

00:07:13: These were my boundaries.

00:07:15: This was when I met.

00:07:16: And then the relational gift is you can actually use a safe container of our relationship.

00:07:22: and I want to be very, very clear here.

00:07:24: A relationship whether your dating whatever it is a safe Container To stretch those boundaries to get uncomfortable so that you can grow.

00:07:32: That's the value of connecting with other people.

00:07:34: So again learning what your boundaries are on your own It's very important.

00:07:38: You can communicate them.

00:07:40: Then meeting other People where Are Your Edges?

00:07:42: What Are Your Boundaries?

00:07:43: Where Can We Come Together On That?

00:07:44: A lot of people I see dating, they're interviewing for the wrong job.

00:07:50: So we are looking at a partner this one person ideally you know?

00:07:54: A lot have had this idea that is supposed to fill all these different roles in our life but were not looking.

00:08:02: how are we contributing?

00:08:03: also

00:08:03: The

00:08:04: partnership as give and take it's back-and-forth two directional.

00:08:07: We aren't interviewing for candidate right?

00:08:10: Were actually looking somebody who can build with Because again, ongoing conversation.

00:08:15: Ongoing adventure.

00:08:16: this is not an item we're looking to purchase or an object were getting.

00:08:20: This Is Not A Possessive Conversation.

00:08:22: It's Not An Ownership Conversation.

00:08:24: This Is A Partnership Conversation So knowing what you are bringing the table too.

00:08:29: People Are Often Going Out Again Dating Looking For This Thing They Want To Get.

00:08:33: These Are The Qualifications.

00:08:34: Versus What Are You Available For?

00:08:37: Not What Can I Get From You Sitting Down On Date?

00:08:40: One you know, it's not about grilling the other person necessarily but its like.

00:08:44: hey!

00:08:45: You know and this goes for whether your going on a first date or at spicy event.

00:08:50: Or whatever is.

00:08:51: Hey This Is What I'm Interested In?

00:08:53: This Is what Im Available For?

00:08:55: How bout you?

00:08:56: Rather than can i have this?

00:08:58: Whether Its A Consent Conversation At An Event Like Can I Kiss You?

00:09:01: There'S Only A Yes-Or No Option there.

00:09:03: Right Your Cutting Yourself Off Versus Im Really Interested in Kissing You.

00:09:06: I Think You're Beautiful.

00:09:09: Now you've opened up an entire buffet of options, and the same thing goes for dating.

00:09:14: I'm really interested in looking for long-term partnership.

00:09:16: This is where i'm at my life And this what Im really enjoying.

00:09:18: What are you available For?

00:09:19: What Are You Interested In?

00:09:20: It's much

00:09:21: more open.

00:09:21: Yeah!

00:09:22: Its not like a checklist Exactly!

00:09:24: Then they have ten boxes.

00:09:25: If your paying them then you're out.

00:09:27: That

00:09:27: pass fail

00:09:28: Right?!

00:09:28: Your meeting another person Dating Is getting to know Another Person its Not Again You're Not At The Supermarket

00:09:35: And to connect and show something from yourself also.

00:09:38: Yeah, I think when you really come from...I know where i'm at!

00:09:42: ...and am confident comfortable in enjoying that?

00:09:45: It's- I don't have anything to prove anyone but it enables me genuinely curious about Where You're At because I dont need YOU to be particularly anywhere To validate where im at.

00:09:55: Just let me know Like if you just wanna have sex and Im available for that Great, but if I'm only asked like just because iIm looking for partnership doesn't mean Im not available anything else.

00:10:05: So we need to open up those conversations a lot more and it feels so high stakes right?

00:10:10: And its understandable.

00:10:11: But when you can again practice that relationship with yourself You really understand where your at Really own.

00:10:17: Where are you're At?

00:10:18: No one elses approval or disapproval.

00:10:22: matters You know were youre at.

00:10:26: You don't owe them anything, they don't know you or anything and your leaving the door open for what's available.

00:10:31: So I start with an open heart to really connect a person And then i have good few dates.

00:10:38: What is it?

00:10:38: Good way of speaking than two each other in The beginning maybe like to talk about boundaries To Talk About What I Like Or Maybe Dislike.

00:10:48: so what Is A good Way Of Starting Your Conversation?

00:10:51: I always like to Start With The Positive Right!

00:10:54: What Have I Already Enjoyed?

00:10:56: What do I know that I like?

00:10:57: You know, if i want to give somebody I'm interested in everything they need.

00:11:03: To be successful with me.

00:11:04: I know the kind of environments that like to be in, so i'll either comment on it.

00:11:09: if we pass a restaurant or something when were out one day doing something else.

00:11:14: I really enjoyed last time went there and liked the ambiance.

00:11:17: give them materials they need you mixology bars or you don't really drink that much.

00:11:29: I'm more interested in the mocktail menu, but places that have a good mocktail venue letting them know about myself.

00:11:35: it's not a test.

00:11:36: right here is all of the materials You need.

00:11:39: i'm interested to see what we can build together with That and also want how?

00:11:42: Can I wanna know The same from you?

00:11:44: because if We're dating like I want To be set up for success Not being compatible isn't A failure It's just information.

00:11:52: If We treat Dating Like A pass fail like I'm testing you to see what nobody wins.

00:11:57: Especially

00:11:57: in Berlin, lots of people are trying today and it's very frustrated... ...and a lot single capital for Germany.

00:12:04: so we have loads of people searching for love.

00:12:08: they tell me or i also experienced that its not easy but maybe big part is from the people oneself when started.

00:12:17: What if there was long-term relationship?

00:12:20: You live together.

00:12:23: how does this?

00:12:24: Paspa goes on and on.

00:12:26: So I love the work when it comes to this conversation, The Work of Esther Perle and Emily Nagosky in brilliant minds like that have been very influential in my work in this area.

00:12:36: It's that push-pull rate Of long term relationship requires security for love To flourish.

00:12:42: But desire needs mystery And distance and unknown.

00:12:45: Those things seem like they're incomplete opposition.

00:12:48: In a sense They are but That isn't necessarily exclusively the case.

00:12:54: So you can actually create, I've heard call and what... The term I use is novel monogamy for example.

00:13:00: if you are- If take my free relationship style quiz at MyRelationshipStyle.com That will tell which of four relationships styles fall under your relational archetype tells about need for exclusivity both on physical or sexual side desire and emotional romantic side Again, then you can build relationships that actually support that with other people.

00:13:26: And that doesn't mean you have to have the same relationship style as your partner or partners but having the language around.

00:13:32: oh this is how I work!

00:13:33: This is how i relate physically and emotionally.

00:13:36: now you can have a conversation about what supports both of us feeling secure but still maintaining that mystery.

00:13:42: so just to bring it back to how do we maintain those long-term relationships whatever they look like?

00:13:47: Whether you have one partner or three... So novel monogamy for example.

00:13:51: We use the term monogamy to mean one sexual and romantic partner.

00:13:55: But even within monogam, there's a lot of different ways to do that.

00:13:58: so There are people who want to have only one sexual And romantic partner but they really like going to erotic events For example, that's how they keep the spice.

00:14:07: They like being in those environments and it opens them up to new ideas as we see things there just in an environment that aligns their senses together.

00:14:15: And whether you know play together at these parties or take energy back home and have amazing night Back Home That is a way to inject novelty.

00:14:24: It doesn't mean you need to go to play parties.

00:14:26: There are ways of having new experiences In long term.

00:14:31: monogamous partnership.

00:14:33: Something simple You know, starting a new class in something neither of you has done before.

00:14:38: Maybe one or both of you have been interested in pottery?

00:14:41: but neither of you's ever done it before.

00:14:43: You start taking classes at a local pottery club or what have you, and you learn how to throw cut-to the scene from Ghost with me.

00:14:49: Super sexy!

00:14:50: Exactly

00:14:51: right?

00:14:51: So... And you might find that either one likes it.

00:14:54: What fun thing to experience together.

00:14:56: then next new activity The other partner chooses Whatever That is.

00:15:00: There are so many ways to seek novelty.

00:15:03: I think what i see getting away in long term relationships most often And again, this isn't exclusively for folks that are monogamous.

00:15:10: Just long-term relationship in general is getting into really the nervous system lie of familiarity.

00:15:18: Our nervous system likes to be stabilized, which is good.

00:15:20: We do need a stable nervous system but the way our body and our nervous system operates is constantly scanning for danger right?

00:15:28: To make sure that we're

00:15:28: safe.".

00:15:29: And so when in long-term committed relationship would get know each other and each others habits especially if were sharing space or nesting together you now it starts feel like ah!

00:15:38: You have become sort of part right?

00:15:42: And that's where we get into, oh you know I know everything about my partner inside and out.

00:15:49: like it's not exciting anymore.

00:15:50: just sort of all feels routine.

00:15:52: A phrase i hear a lot in these scenarios is like Oh yeah!

00:15:55: We finish each other sentences.

00:15:57: That's called interrupting.

00:15:59: You actually don't know what your partner is going to say...you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR PARTNER IS GOING TO DO.

00:16:04: YOU HAVE A HIGHER PROBABILITY BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF THESE THINGS you know, for a long time together.

00:16:10: But you actually never know one hundred percent for sure what your partner is going to say or do because they just like you are constantly growing changing expanding.

00:16:20: so the short version to answer your question is to maintain a lived sense of curiosity.

00:16:25: how can you look at your partner and treat your partner?

00:16:27: And speak to an about your partner in a way that leaves room for them to surprise You?

00:16:33: Because I'll tell you if you've decided That Your Partner Can't Surprise You Anymore They Can Or they will in a way that really doesn't work for you.

00:16:40: And it's little bit like, at the beginning what do I bring to the table or still on?

00:16:47: Very much!

00:16:48: Now i have this person and he sits on my sofa doing every day.

00:16:52: so now...I don´t need anything but new things together and explore other people ongoing not having this fixed image of him like I met this person ten years ago, for example.

00:17:08: So i have this passport and then get new stamps every time.

00:17:14: How is it with multiple partners?

00:17:16: Do you recommend that they communicate beneath each other or what's a good idea to have when your don't only one For example?

00:17:24: A lot of the same principles apply whether you have one partner or three, or your main partner and are solo poly.

00:17:33: And you're dating and have multiple types of relationships in your life.

00:17:37: again like what we said at the beginning relationship is a skill set not an object.

00:17:42: so learning how to communicate about yourself forbearance hold discomfort reaction until more information to respond.

00:17:52: these skills get better at multi-partner dynamics any version of consensual non-monogamy, like polyamory or open relationship whatever.

00:18:02: You are experiencing relationship exposure therapy.

00:18:05: the more you do something...the more exposure you have..the more opportunity to get better at it.

00:18:11: so its a lot same skills just with multiplicity.

00:18:15: So if you're dealing with, for example... Or if your living inside a kitchen table poly dynamic where everybody is communicating with each other.

00:18:24: You are socializing together and not necessarily all dating but in open communication I should say there's lots of variables.

00:18:35: so what do want to stay out?

00:18:36: our things like triangulation?

00:18:38: You know, you and your partner are talking about your hinge partner for example.

00:18:42: that connects you.

00:18:43: And you're debating something that each of you is dealing with them.

00:18:46: That's not a dynamic you want to get into right?

00:18:48: That's NOT respectful!

00:18:50: You don't wanna be speaking ABOUT somebody in a scenario who isn't present Right because then you're creating A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE ACCURATE.

00:18:59: So learning how to communicate within conflict, whether that's involving one other partner or multiple of their partners.

00:19:05: Making sure that each person has an opportunity to feel heard is expressing themselves—that you're not projecting onto each other.

00:19:12: You are actually practicing listening and hearing each other rather than just waiting for your chance to respond and defend yourself or whatever it is?

00:19:20: Are you looking at this person trying to understand them?

00:19:24: And when communicating…are you communicating things like that.

00:19:28: Ellie, maybe we can go to your start a little?

00:19:32: Why did you started with passport-to-pleasure?

00:19:35: why working with people or was couples are doing this relationship work?

00:19:40: Why is it interesting for

00:19:41: you?".

00:19:42: I mean the short answer from where i'm sitting... Relationship dictates everything in the world and don't me not in small sense.

00:19:51: Cheekily You'll hear me say if our world leaders were better fucked We'd be less fucked.

00:19:55: And I mean that, like if we have better relationships that last longer.

00:19:58: We will have a better world that lasts longer what we're seeing in the world at large right now so much opposition and fear us versus them because were an opposition home.

00:20:08: you know?

00:20:08: What've done for me lately?

00:20:10: there's no partnership conversation.

00:20:12: it is... If your'e an opposition with other person or relationship of people are not in partnerships

00:20:19: Violentist consequences all horrible things Today,

00:20:24: it's a lot of outward projection on causation.

00:20:27: Everything is out there and I'm going to say something that can feel very uncomfortable because regardless of how... And i'm gonna say me specifically and you can extrapolate and put yourself in my position but until the people who are in power right now-I put them in power just as much as if I had voted for them whether or not I did?

00:20:47: Because I am part until we can all take responsibility for our part in the way everything is going, rather than it's your fault over there and we're right regardless.

00:21:02: It's gonna keep happening.

00:21:03: We are all creating the ecosystem communally.

00:21:07: So you say again what I Are you bringing to the table also in a bigger political sense?

00:21:13: Very, very much.

00:21:14: For me it was.

00:21:15: I've had a number of different we'll call them chapters and my life that looked like different careers And looking back It's all still this study and fascination quite frankly The obsession with human behavior How We Relate And that's what took me to launching Passport To Pleasure, is the realization that underneath everything I've ever done has been a fascination and obsession with just human relating.

00:21:40: How we relate?

00:21:42: I know that i'm in love with humanity because if it wasn't y'all wouldn't be able to break my heart so much!

00:21:47: So there are two or three things would you recommend for humankind... What should we do with each other?

00:21:59: That's a very, very big question.

00:22:01: You said something you said earlier actually when you introduced me keeps like coming up into my mind.

00:22:07: not needing an easy answer so easy and simple aren't necessarily synonyms.

00:22:13: I think a lot of the solution to your questions or... A lot of ingredients needed for change is actually quite simple but that doesn't mean it's easy.

00:22:23: When someone doesn't see the world the way you do, that's not a synonym for them being wrong and you being right.

00:22:30: You understanding somebody else's viewpoint is NOT A Synonym For You Agreeing With Them.

00:22:36: There are alot of spaces it makes sense?

00:22:38: And differences between those two things.

00:22:40: I think we've lost our art Of Conversation.

00:22:43: Where... The point in this?

00:22:45: even Right here right?

00:22:46: You & I talking!

00:22:47: I don't need to agree with everything.

00:22:49: i say.

00:22:50: Im Not Here To Sit Down And Convince YOU of anything.

00:22:53: I'm sitting down with you because i'm curious, i'm delighted that you want to ask me questions and learn about my viewpoint!

00:22:59: I also want to learn about yours not because i necessarily going to agree with you on everything.

00:23:03: in fact where our differences are?

00:23:05: those boundaries those borders right?

00:23:07: That's what opens us up to new ways of thinking and seeing the world again.

00:23:10: it doesn't mean we necessarily agree but if Understand where other people are coming from.

00:23:17: We're never speaking the same language.

00:23:19: This is what I see with couples a lot of the time.

00:23:21: Is there actually either they're using the same words, but they mean completely different things to each other and They've never actually talked about What i call shared language?

00:23:29: What these words Actually means us?

00:23:31: you know cheating is a big one for example.

00:23:34: Or they're using different words to actually mean the same thing.

00:23:36: They just don't have that shared language, so their communicating well but not communicating effectively.

00:23:42: and a part of effective communication is understanding where you are speaking with.

00:23:46: it's coming from.

00:23:47: You can orate at somebody all day long.

00:23:49: It would be very articulate thorough and thought, you know science data-backed.

00:23:54: And all the information.

00:23:55: like I'm a nerd i love going into numbers but if im spewing this academic jargon and nobody understands me or it's too esoteric and woo woo spiritual then Im not effective.

00:24:08: Im interested in effective communication.

00:24:10: what is gonna get my point across?

00:24:12: I cant do that!

00:24:13: I dont understand who am speaking with.

00:24:15: again.

00:24:16: this doesnt mean I agree But I understand, my goal is to understand whoever i'm speaking with.

00:24:21: My goals are understanding clients so that they can speak in a way that helps them understand or see something that they haven't seen before

00:24:39: that you have everything.

00:24:41: Very good ideas, a very good structure of how you communicate your own work.

00:24:46: but is it easy to do in your own relationships for example?

00:24:51: or is it hard?

00:24:53: Simple...but not always easy!

00:24:58: Very uncomfortable Sometimes, right?

00:25:01: That's not a failure to me.

00:25:02: that took and continues to take A lot of growth in effort but To me these aren't bad things.

00:25:09: These are indicative like something is wrong because it requires effort.

00:25:13: You know I overuse the gym analogy.

00:25:16: So just keep going.

00:25:17: you don't go to the gym You don't get stronger by avoiding going to the gym, you go and then never pick up anything.

00:25:25: Like you pick out your weight so that they're always heavy no matter if it's their first time or tenth year.

00:25:32: The weights are always heavy but the weights get bigger because of practicing!

00:25:37: Avoiding discomfort doesn't help you get better at anything, especially when it comes to relating.

00:25:42: And It's very uncomfortable to relate with other people like what we were just talking about right?

00:25:46: Understanding somebody who sees the world dramatically differently than me is exceptionally uncomfortable because its challenging.

00:25:55: Who am I?

00:25:56: What are my thoughts?

00:25:57: what are my

00:25:57: feelings?".

00:25:58: It's bumping up against those boundaries, right of how I understand the world.

00:26:02: How i understand myself and myself in the world.

00:26:05: Those boundaries getting pushed is uncomfortable but that's valuable.

00:26:09: That's growth, that strength building.

00:26:12: It's either affirming helping me affirm like yes actually I do feel the way i do...I do understand things because of XYZ and more confident in it now than ever.

00:26:22: not because you've agreed with me but because I examined where your coming from.

00:26:26: trying to understand you helped see myself.

00:26:30: yeah comes into a lot discomfort at times.

00:26:33: my own relationship wouldn't change it for the world because I value a relationship with that capacity.

00:26:41: For growth, self-examination mutual reflection.

00:26:46: these are things i value in relationships.

00:26:49: so the person or people my closest you know romantic partnerships with our people who share those values we can build structure together supports all of us.

00:27:01: One part is understanding things or knowledge.

00:27:04: So can you describe these four things?

00:27:07: What kind of relationship types could we be

00:27:11: sure?

00:27:11: so again, it's myrelationshipstyle.com.

00:27:15: It's free because I want people to have this like We said right simple and easy.

00:27:19: It's a very simple quiz for quadrants Very simple breakdown rate.

00:27:23: You get your archetype.

00:27:26: The challenge is then in actually having the conversations, learning that about yourself.

00:27:31: Having a language now to express it to somebody else knowing that might shift how things currently are.

00:27:36: but if things aren't currently supporting you That could be for better But feels uncomfortable because we don't know right?

00:27:42: Change very scary and thats normal Very evolutionary thing.

00:27:48: So sorry, just to go back to your question that the four relational archetypes are for relationship styles.

00:27:54: If you think of an XY axis like two different planes if one access is your emotional or your romantic needs and the other axis which crosses right in the middle Both of those are two separate planes, a desire or need.

00:28:10: And you have different needs for exclusivity within both of them.

00:28:14: So maybe somebody who really puts value and weight in physical sexual bond Like that is whether your considered sacred Or whatever it does.

00:28:22: You want to keep the container between one person at least with time.

00:28:27: But may be you don't have this need.

00:28:29: Maybe you're like, I actually am able to love many people simultaneously and have deep meaningful relationships with more than one person at a time.

00:28:36: But that sexual bond is really precious to me And i really want to... You know?

00:28:40: Have that with one person At a time rather then multiple people Simultaneously.

00:28:45: That means you have a higher need for exclusivity sexually or physically but maybe not so much emotionally Or romantically.

00:28:52: There's nothing wrong here.

00:28:53: there Is no higher or lower morality in any of it.

00:28:57: It's understanding yourself sexually and physiologically, And where your nervous system feels regulated.

00:29:04: So when you have a relationship style You understand more about how you operate How to connect.

00:29:11: You can create relationships structures that support them.

00:29:15: so again we talked About our relationship as safe container.

00:29:18: Whatever the structure takes on That doesn't mean your nervous systems will never be dysregulated Because growth change is uncomfortable, but safe and comfortable.

00:29:30: And unsafe an uncomfortable these are not synonyms.

00:29:34: we've conflated in our society discomfort We've like merged...we made discomfort and unsafe to be synonymes.

00:29:40: when they're not getting uncomfortable In a safe environment it's actually very rewarding.

00:29:47: So I'm kind of talking around a bunch of different concepts here.

00:29:50: But again, when you understand your relationship style so what type of how much exclusivity you need within each of the two planes and you look at structures like there.

00:29:59: various types of polyamory or open relationships are swinging everything they're in.

00:30:04: then You can actually build that structure That could be safe container to support the discomfort of growth.

00:30:13: Similarly to what I was just saying, a higher or lower need for exclusivity sexually were emotionally.

00:30:18: You can have high-need for exclusivity sexually, lower-needs emotionally vice versa... High needs are both and low needs is both.

00:30:25: It's that simple way of breaking down not an easy process because again we're living in social script That says this one structure Is valid relationship Anything else outside it?

00:30:37: Invalid unhealthy pathological whatever label you want to throw on there.

00:30:43: When a relationship is a conversation, it's an ongoing experience.

00:30:50: so when you get your style that's not assigning you structure.

00:30:54: its saying here are bunch of different structures.

00:30:59: It's arranged in a way.

00:31:00: Exactly, because it might shift and your needs may change over time.

00:31:05: You know you have different capacity at different points in your life.

00:31:08: You know having kids Having a career having a house not having like so many things can change health.

00:31:15: Right that your capacity gets impacted than that can change what?

00:31:18: You're available for right But if you understand how you relate now you have a language to actually talk about with other people And again create those relationship structures.

00:31:26: let support you both or all of you

00:31:28: Ellie, on this journey with your wonderful passport.

00:31:31: Passport to pleasure.

00:31:32: there are lots of things to learn.

00:31:34: what would you say is a nice way or leaving someone like to say goodbye in the way?

00:31:40: I

00:31:40: love that question!

00:31:41: Yes i love that questions so much because we see...I'd say Wee Like The Royal Wee socially..we're told That End Of A Relationship Is Failure.

00:31:52: If a relationship ends, it's failed because relationships should last forever.

00:31:57: And look if that is the goal you want to have in your life time...that's great!

00:32:01: That isn't an attachment of specific structure but what qualities and experiences are within them.

00:32:08: You can have many different structures with one person.

00:32:13: So all that to say, when a relationship has reached whatever end point.

00:32:18: Something that I work with couples or just any more sums would have you that are either transitioning into a new structure or transitioning out of our relationships is really look at what was the value within that relationship?

00:32:31: Where were you up when you got into it and where do we chat now?

00:32:34: What if you learned... change your mind about whatever you expanded into, what do you love yourself now for having been in this relationship?

00:32:44: What are you grateful to the other person for having exposed you too.

00:32:48: As long as it's a net positive—as long that we're both or all better off in any way and some area of our life —for being together then It was a win!

00:32:58: Not everything lasts forever, but that's not a failure.

00:33:01: Ali I'm already in love with you after very short time so i am looking forward to get new passport and to look into all your things on the website.

00:33:17: What are your ideas for Berlin when you're here?

00:33:19: Is there anything

00:33:21: sitting on big block of ice

00:33:22: right now?

00:33:24: This is in the moment, The Best Idea.

00:33:26: Oh my goodness!

00:33:27: Yes well I'm so excited to be here for...for the event that we're both going to be at.

00:33:32: iIm very excited for our panel That you are gonna be moderating and just-.

00:33:36: I love seeing folks who Are showing up In a world authentically And imparting expertise us beyond the limited scope that we're handed.

00:33:55: Helping people feel less other and understanding, I mean this sounds kind of cliche but like i said all are in-this together.

00:34:05: just because you're different than me doesn't mean we're not in this together.

00:34:08: so the different ways people show up in the world whether it's specifically in sex positive space or sexual relational wellness.

00:34:18: Just normalizing these conversations in so many different ways just fills me with hope and joy, an appreciation.

00:34:26: Ali

00:34:27: what is next on your professional life?

00:34:29: What's there to come?

00:34:30: thank you so much hopefully everyone coming but no for me.

00:34:36: I'm actually really appreciate asking that.

00:34:38: i am very thrilled to have signed my first book agent face-first into my first book.

00:34:49: It is tentatively, or it's currently I should say titled for the love of jealousy and it makes...I don't want to say argument but it positions jealousy as what i understand it to be which that it is the single most misunderstood an underused emotional experience to deepen trust and intimacy in relationships.

00:35:10: we are going about jealousy completely wrong from what I see in a good sped, avoid it.

00:35:16: Like if jealousy is showing up something's wrong either with you or the relationship but also simultaneously somehow jealously as proof of love.

00:35:24: so that's kind of what clued me and why i started this.

00:35:27: um you know this uh rabbit hole that has now resulted in what will become my first book.

00:35:32: when I see an incongruence an inconsistency in messaging like jealousy Terrible avoid it at all costs.

00:35:41: You know, you don't want to be somebody who experiences jealousy.

00:35:43: I'm not a jealous person that whole thing but also simultaneously if you're NOT experiencing It That means you Don't care?

00:35:49: i was like oh that doesn't make sense!

00:35:51: That's Not matching up.

00:35:53: So you have To Be Jealous If You Care But If Your Jealous There'S Something Wrong That Doesn'T Make Sense To Me.

00:35:58: so i started Investigating And that investigation looks like reading a bunch of studies.

00:36:02: It looks like the work I do with clients, it looks Like The Work I Do With Myself In My Own Relationships and That Opened Up A Whole World.

00:36:09: So We Talked About my Four Quadrants Of You Know, The Relationship Styles, Four Quadrantes Of Desire...I Also I Do Love A Four Quadrent Model When It Comes To Our Physical Arousal.

00:36:19: so you know whether something's arousing sexually or not at all?

00:36:23: ...And Then The Emotional Experience from compersion, which for those who haven't heard the term before.

00:36:28: Compersion is that of a joy or pleasure you experience from your partner experiencing joy and pleasure with somebody else all the way to jealousy Which Is A Very Uncomfortable Emotional Experience.

00:36:38: So If You Think Of Compersion And Jealousy As The Emotional the emotional spread from yummy, yummy feeling compersion to not so yummy very uncomfortable jealousy on one plane.

00:36:48: The other plane being arousal there's actually arousel potential within both compersions and jealousy.

00:36:54: that doesn't mean jealousy suddenly feels good.

00:36:56: Jealousy is still very uncomfortable emotionally but when you create a secure environment around it in your and you're activating it consensually with autonomy with agency You can actually unlock erotic Incredible.

00:37:12: So my book, like I said will be the full investigation of that and exploration showing we're going about jealousy all wrong.

00:37:20: by avoiding it We are actually avoiding one of our most data rich experiences both in personal growth And relational

00:37:27: growth.

00:37:28: Thank you so much for this honest and wonderful conversation.

00:37:31: Have a lovely hot day.